Working With Wealth EP1: Alison Keene
March 8, 2024
March 8, 2024
00:00:02:04 – 00:00:28:16
Jason Vincent
Welcome everyone to the Working with Wealth podcast, where we bring you experts in generating, managing and transferring your wealth. I’m your host, Jason Vincent, and today in support of International Women’s Day, we’re joined by Alison Keen to discuss her journey through wealth and what she recommends to not only younger women but to women who are a bit further on in their in their life’s journey.
00:00:28:18 – 00:01:20:02
Jason Vincent
Maybe just a really brief introduction. Alison Why I thought she’d be such a great participant and guest in this podcast is because Alison really has two perspectives that work really well for this conversation. First and foremost, Alison’s a wife, a mother, grandmother, and so she’s obviously experienced from women’s perspective from a personal point of view. But as importantly, and maybe more importantly for this podcast, is that Ali was a real trailblazer, really starting 45 years ago in the financial world, and really spent much of her career not only working with women, with men as well, of course, but in the financial services business, but really spending many, many years working through the challenges, much like we
00:01:20:02 – 00:01:37:09
Jason Vincent
work through with the women that we that we service from the wealth perspective. On dealing with all the issues that are sort of more unique or fairly unique to women. So again, Alison, thank you for being on our podcast. And let’s get started.
00:01:37:09 – 00:01:54:04
Jason Vincent
It was fantastic that Bill was able to link us. You know, you and I suspect have probably had a cross paths. I’ve been in the business, I believe, since 1991. You probably remember a company called Royal Trust.
00:01:54:06 – 00:01:54:17
Alison Keene
yes.
00:01:54:21 – 00:02:22:07
Jason Vincent
Before Royal Bank bought Royal Trust, a joined Royal Trust out of university. And looking back, I was quite fortunate because that’s before they had kind of separated the four pillars, if you remember, you know, Royal Trust, which was sort of had everything under one roof, unbeknownst to me. You know, you have to look back and sort of see what happened is a lot of people were leaving Royal Trust because they were actually going bankrupt at that point.
00:02:22:07 – 00:02:23:20
Alison Keene
I remember that. Well.
00:02:23:22 – 00:02:42:06
Jason Vincent
As I look back on it, it was fantastic because as a young person, you were exposed to great clients and you had, you know, money management, you had finance, you had estate planning. You had trust. You had all those pieces that they sort of threw you into. You know, so I always look back at that and think that was sort of trial by fire.
00:02:42:06 – 00:02:46:03
Jason Vincent
But it was a fantastic training ground.
00:02:46:05 – 00:03:09:11
Alison Keene
Well, it was. But I also I think that that was a bit sort of representative of the time in Calgary back then, you know, because it was growing so rapidly in all areas, not just in finance. And if you were there, like you happened to be at the right place at the right time and you’re willing to take it on.
00:03:09:11 – 00:03:28:10
Alison Keene
I had a very similar experience, really entered the world of finance and just happened to get hired and happened to be there the right place at the right time. And then when I got there, I realized I like it here. This is where I meant to be.
00:03:28:10 – 00:03:34:15
Alison Keene
there were no obstacles. It was like, this is where I want to go. This is what I want to do. And nobody stepped in my way.
00:03:34:15 – 00:03:41:06
Jason Vincent
You know how time flies. I guess we all get older. But I mean, you’ve been in the business. You had really exposure
00:03:41:06 – 00:03:56:23
Jason Vincent
for 40 years, basically. Right. In it, in the wealth. I’m just going to sort of term the wealth business and what sort of evolved over time. People use wealth now, but I mean, essentially you had this the four pillars that we talk about when you’re dealing with clients.
00:03:56:23 – 00:04:08:05
Jason Vincent
And I suspect you and I had a conversation earlier that as a female, you would have been pretty a rarity, certainly back, I would think, 40 years ago.
00:04:08:15 – 00:04:39:13
Alison Keene
yeah. That rarity started and on the on the floor of the Alberta Stock Exchange. And, you know, when I walked in that day, they all looked at me like she’s a girl. I was really still then I guess I could have still been classified as a girl because I was in my early twenties. I the exchange hired me to work on the floor and within a few months I was actually became the supervisor of the staff for the Alberta Stock Exchange.
00:04:39:15 – 00:04:58:11
Alison Keene
And then a few months after that, I was hired to be an assistant to a floor trader. And I mean, it’s when I think back on that year, it felt like, you know, when I look back on it now, well, it must have been at least a year. I was in there. Well, it was only months. What you were speaking about earlier, I was only in some of these roles for months.
00:04:58:11 – 00:05:06:10
Alison Keene
And then next thing you know, I’m a fully licensed floor attorney trading on the stock exchange floor.
00:05:06:10 – 00:05:07:04
Jason Vincent
Fantastic.
00:05:07:04 – 00:05:08:04
Alison Keene
The first female ever.
00:05:08:06 – 00:05:08:18
Jason Vincent
Yeah.
00:05:08:20 – 00:05:31:20
Alison Keene
And I remember it was very much you know a man’s world because and one day, you know there I am dressed up and there’s a gallery on the exchange floor and you know, viewers could sit and watch the trading go on. And it was really heavy junior oil and gas back then. So a lot of people were very interested in, you know, their fortunes every day.
00:05:31:22 – 00:05:54:15
Alison Keene
And in the middle of the trading session, which was totally just not permitted, they called the traders called some of the senior traders called it to a halt for a moment and they put me on, you know, Alison would like you to get on this stool and I’m thinking, what’s going on here? And there’s viewers in the gallery.
00:05:54:15 – 00:06:19:22
Alison Keene
And I thought, it can’t get too crazy because there are public onlookers. And some of the floor traders, they were Ex- from Montreal Stock Exchange way back when and they migrated west. And some of these guys have been in the business for a long time. They were definitely my seniors. Anyways, they put me on top of this stool and one of them had fabricated like a saber of a sword.
00:06:19:24 – 00:06:48:14
Alison Keene
Anyways, they knighted me, a stock trader, and one of them not a female, not a male. I was a stock trader. And I, I almost started to cry because I thought, my gosh, this is the pinnacle of acceptance for these boys, right? That they’re inviting me. And then the audience in the gallery, they kind of got wind of what was going on and they started clapping.
00:06:48:14 – 00:07:02:18
Alison Keene
And I was like, this is really a moment. And it was in that moment that I realized, yes, you can very much be a young girl / woman in a man’s world if you conduct yourself.
00:07:02:20 – 00:07:03:14
Jason Vincent
Right in.
00:07:03:14 – 00:07:13:01
Alison Keene
A way to garner respect. And they did, obviously. And I went on from there. You know, I was offered other roles and.
00:07:13:02 – 00:07:13:16
Jason Vincent
Right.
00:07:13:18 – 00:07:16:24
Alison Keene
And but it was that was it was a moment, you know.
00:07:17:03 – 00:07:18:23
Jason Vincent
That was a foundational piece for you.
00:07:18:23 – 00:07:19:19
Alison Keene
Yeah, it was.
00:07:19:19 – 00:07:20:23
Jason Vincent
Yeah, yeah.
00:07:21:00 – 00:07:21:10
Alison Keene
Yeah.
00:07:21:14 – 00:07:23:23
Jason Vincent
So, I mean, for us, I mean,
00:07:23:23 – 00:07:40:22
Jason Vincent
the wealth practice that we run at Matco, I think Bill and I and Lindsey have been, you know, a part of for a number of years now is, is working with women and looking at some of the different challenges and opportunities, by the way.
00:07:40:22 – 00:08:04:02
Jason Vincent
But you know, we have become more at it from a challenges perspective and from my perspective, looking at you, you’re a perfect person for us to talk in the sense that obviously you’ve grown up in sort of a male dominated industry. Certainly 40 years ago and you’re female working with a number of females in the wealth business, right?
00:08:04:02 – 00:08:31:05
Jason Vincent
So you’re really right in the strike zone of of us having this chat of basically, I think, trying to help or give a better path or trajectory to women where we see problems or struggles is death and divorce for that for that age group. And I’m certain that you’ve dealt with that many, many times in your clientele basis and your from our perspective, I kind of use the 1/3, 1/3, and 1/3 rule.
00:08:31:05 – 00:08:59:11
Jason Vincent
If I look at what we try and do with them Alison is a third of the clientele would be fantastic. Meaning? Meaning the lady is 100% involved, understands what’s going on. A third would be, you know, I kind of know what’s going on, but I don’t pay attention the way I should. And then a third would be and I’m oversimplifying, not aware at all, and not really wanting to be aware.
00:08:59:11 – 00:08:59:16
Jason Vincent
And, you know,
00:08:59:16 – 00:09:07:00
Jason Vincent
know, you look at your experience and how you have seen that over the number of years, whether it’s similar or different or whether you can sort of offer some
00:09:07:00 – 00:09:07:24
Jason Vincent
sage advice.
00:09:08:01 – 00:09:53:00
Alison Keene
Yeah, I have experienced in my career as, my former career I guess, now retired, as an investment advisor, I found very similar. We particularly, let’s say, with the demographics of the boomers. And so I’m actually a boomer myself in that age demographic. But I think that now we’re seeing with the different generations coming through, women are realizing that they need to be more involved.
00:09:53:00 – 00:10:20:12
Alison Keene
They’re not sure how necessarily go about it. But, you know, when you go back to the root of this and I give you know, I used to give it a lot of thought, how come women don’t want to know, want to be involved? And I guess really, you know, you go back to societal expectations placed on women and they were in a dependent role on a dependent category.
00:10:20:14 – 00:10:34:03
Alison Keene
And I mean, when I think about my own family history, my mom was not the one who set the financial agenda in our household. When I look at her life, she never really did. Right. And she
00:10:34:03 – 00:10:35:02
Alison Keene
my
00:10:35:02 – 00:10:44:03
Alison Keene
my parents got divorced when I was a young when I was adolescent. And she never really did set that agenda.
00:10:44:03 – 00:11:16:02
Alison Keene
And even in my role professionally, when I would try and help her, she kind of pushed it away. And so thankfully she had me to help her with that. In life, later life. But when I entered the investment world, like we were talking about earlier in 1982, I was the only woman. Money was very much a man’s world. I mean, look at Bay Street and Wall Street, and it’s changed a little, but not enough.
00:11:16:04 – 00:11:52:04
Alison Keene
And there’s that whole mindset about women aren’t good with money. Maybe because historically they were stay at home moms. They weren’t out in the workforce earning it. And if they were, it was more of service roles, jobs and so not career roles. But that’s changing now. Women of the other generations coming up behind the Boomers, the Xs, the Millennials, the Zs, all those different generations
00:11:52:04 – 00:11:53:21
Alison Keene
education is a priority.
00:11:53:21 – 00:12:17:21
Alison Keene
Careers are priority and women are deferring marriage, deferring having children for their careers. Yeah, they have setting goals for themselves, which is great to see. But in that process I’m also discovering now lately is that they’re having a hard time accessing
00:12:17:21 – 00:12:27:24
Alison Keene
expert care and attention to guide them where they feel that they can trust it and they just don’t know where to go.
00:12:27:24 – 00:12:33:21
Alison Keene
what should I be looking at? How should I be handling this? They’re not necessarily sure what they should be doing.
00:12:33:21 – 00:12:40:22
Jason Vincent
How have you help them find that path if they’re if they ask you the question, you know, what am I next steps?
00:12:40:24 – 00:12:55:24
Alison Keene
Yeah, it’s women who have accumulated some assets and wealth, but not necessarily would be in the category of high net worth. And, you know, when they talked and they said, I really don’t have any idea. I’ve been saving
00:12:55:24 – 00:13:02:01
Alison Keene
through my RRSP, but I don’t really know what’s going on with it. And I said, Well, show me what you’ve been doing.
00:13:02:03 – 00:13:11:23
Alison Keene
Well, they have eight RRSPs and six TFSAs and nothing is put together in a solidified plan.
00:13:12:01 – 00:13:12:16
Jason Vincent
Right.
00:13:12:18 – 00:13:37:02
Alison Keene
And that’s, that’s really where it starts, right. Is that they haven’t been able to access that that kind of expertise or professional help where they can sit down and say, okay, let’s start developing some sort of framework, a roadmap for you, a plan.
00:13:37:04 – 00:13:49:19
Jason Vincent
What I am sort of curious to sort of on that with the millennials and with, you know, their very view of what a more balanced life looks like. A. They’re getting married later.
00:13:49:19 – 00:14:08:03
Jason Vincent
My experience is they’re not having the same amount of children. Their not having children as early, by choice. And B. They’re in relationships that don’t seem to be as certainly not as traditional, I’m going to say, as cemented.
00:14:08:03 – 00:14:40:08
Jason Vincent
They seem to it seems to come and go more than what my generation did. They’ve grown up in a in a place where they’ve watched their mum and dad in sort of a reverse role many times. And now they’re actually in a role where they’re going to use the term breadwinner. And our view is you need to protect yourself, you need to make sure that we’ve got these premarital contracts in place, for example, because you’re now the one who is going to be potentially the target.
00:14:40:10 – 00:15:12:08
Alison Keene
Yeah, it’s the traditional relationship meet guy, get married, have kids. That’s, that’s changing. And I know when I was still in investment management practice. The younger professional women that came to see me didn’t necessarily have a family. They were maybe thinking about having a family, but they weren’t thinking about three, five, six children. Maybe have one child, right.
00:15:12:11 – 00:15:45:11
Alison Keene
So they were delaying childbirth, delaying marriage, focusing more on education and expanding education. Some of these young women were, you know, had two and three degrees. And with their sights set on more designations and if we do have a child, then okay, then I’m going to go take that opportunity and go back to school and get that, you know, my MBA or whatever, masters degree or whatever, other certifications.
00:15:45:13 – 00:16:25:01
Alison Keene
And you’re right, women I, I’m finding women now are becoming primary income earners because of what we just talked about it. But it’s very important, you know money is one of those intangibles but it’s very emotional and over the years, I’ve seen many money related challenges within families, within spouses, amongst siblings, especially, you know, as wealth is passed down.
00:16:25:03 – 00:16:52:10
Alison Keene
And often money motivates us to save for the love of our families, for providing for them a need for security, hopes for the future, what does life look like after work? But it’s really important to partner in my in my point of view, my personal point of view. It’s very important, important to partner with someone with similar financial goals.
00:16:52:12 – 00:17:33:23
Alison Keene
They don’t necessarily have to have the same T4. But they have to have the same respect and appreciation for money that you do. And you know if you can partner with someone with similar perspective or similar points of view and develop that plan we’re talking about and how you both contribute to that plan in what way you’re able to, then it gives you that commonality and an ability to achieve the goals longer term, mid-term, longer term that you desire.
00:17:34:00 – 00:17:58:22
Jason Vincent
Well, I couldn’t agree more. The I always tweet, I always say to people, there’s the two things that cause the most emotion with people is family and health. I put them in the same bucket. Yeah, family and health is number one. And when you see someone have health issues, everything else stops. The next is money, the next is finances.
00:17:58:24 – 00:18:28:15
Jason Vincent
And so I couldn’t agree more. If your values and your beliefs are not aligned or nearly aligned. And it’s very, very difficult in households not only from a cultural perspective but a financial perspective. And those are often huge issues when it comes to, now we’re turning from wealth people into counselors here. It feels like, huge issues when it comes to keeping the family together.
00:18:28:15 – 00:18:55:09
Jason Vincent
I couldn’t agree more. And even when your values are reasonably aligned, it is very common for husband and wife or partners to have different views on money. You’ll sit in front of men, who men are usually for maybe the wrong reasons, more confident. It doesn’t mean they’re better at it, but they’re more confident about it, about money. Men, they’re usually more aggressive
00:18:55:09 – 00:19:16:14
Jason Vincent
in my experience, and women are usually less confident. That doesn’t mean their not as good, they’re just less confident, and they’re usually more conservative in that in that boomer range. And so even within a household, I find it interesting where they’re actually closely aligned, they’re different in how they view risk.
00:19:16:16 – 00:19:46:13
Alison Keene
Absolutely. I, I completely agree with that. In my years of experience, you know, sitting down, typically I would I would be managing the family aspect. But the person that showed up for the regular meeting, plan review, and investment management review was the male partner. Right. And finally, you know, this was early in my career and I thought, no, this isn’t right.
00:19:46:15 – 00:20:11:10
Alison Keene
And then, you know, I’m managing assets for the spouse and she’s not attending. So I would call and I’d call the woman, the spouse, my female client, and say, I would like you very much to come “You what? Does my husband know you’re asking me to do, that?” I said, he will as soon as you say yes.
00:20:11:13 – 00:20:31:01
Jason Vincent
I think that’s great. And that goes back to my 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 comment. I kind of hits that as well. We want them, we want both individuals there. Absolutely. And so and that’s where you work on them to get them there. And there’s a third that you struggle to get both of them there.
00:20:31:04 – 00:20:31:17
Alison Keene
Yes.
00:20:31:22 – 00:20:35:06
Jason Vincent
I mean, that’s our goal because from our perspective, when
00:20:35:06 – 00:20:53:18
Jason Vincent
something happens and we’re all march into that cliff, that proverbial cliff, or we’re not here on this earth anymore when you have it, I’ve done this many, many times Alison. When, for example, the man dies and you don’t have a relationship with the female, their anxiety goes through the roof.
00:20:53:20 – 00:21:17:17
Jason Vincent
Their anxiety through the roof because they don’t know who you are. They don’t know the conversations that you have and they don’t understand what you’ve been doing. It’s basically a brand new client. So from our perspective. We’re not doing our job and we’ve put them in a position where they shouldn’t have that kind of anxiety. It’s bad enough to go through a death, for example, but they shouldn’t have the money anxiety, right.
00:21:17:18 – 00:21:21:15
Jason Vincent
But that’s exactly what you’re referring to, is that bottom third, how I termed it.
00:21:21:20 – 00:21:52:21
Alison Keene
Well, to go back to your comments about the perspective of, you know, maybe then the man has more confidence and a greater appetite for risk, I definitely found that in my experience, women. But what I’ve found actually, we do ourselves a disservice. We may actually say we don’t know much, but actually they know more than they give themselves credit for.
00:21:52:21 – 00:21:53:18
Jason Vincent
I agree.
00:21:53:20 – 00:22:30:15
Alison Keene
And if they were just allowed a seat at the table to express what their long term aspirations and goals are like, when I would I would insist, you know, with new clients, we’re not we’re not talking about investment management, asset allocation, how much bonds, how much risk until we get the plan nailed down. And I could see a lot of times the chagrin on the man’s face like what I came here to talk about stocks and bonds and and the wife would like “yeah!” And I would ask them these difficult questions about, you know, what does life look like in five or ten years?
00:22:30:15 – 00:22:32:15
Alison Keene
What does life look like in retirement?
00:22:32:15 – 00:22:49:09
Alison Keene
And I could see the men looking at me like, why are you asking me these esoteric questions? They just want to talk about, you know, what the price target is on this one particular stock. And she’s talking with me about whether I want to spend my, you know, my retirement years in Pheonix or more like whats she asking me was for.
00:22:49:11 – 00:23:14:07
Alison Keene
And yet, you know, this was the very first time that this couple had had a retirement discussion. And what does life look like after work. And has typically and now again, this boomer generation is where what I’m talking about here. But he was so focused on work and that was his identifier, his career. That’s what identified him.
00:23:14:09 – 00:23:15:00
Jason Vincent
Right.
00:23:15:02 – 00:23:20:03
Alison Keene
And it’s like I’m never retiring. What would I do?
00:23:20:03 – 00:23:21:16
Alison Keene
What do you mean, what would you do?
00:23:21:18 – 00:23:21:24
Jason Vincent
Right.
00:23:22:05 – 00:23:37:11
Alison Keene
Holy cow. There’s. That’s why it’s not just about the money, you know? Don’t. Don’t you like to go hiking? Don’t you want to go and hike? And don’t you want to go see Europe? Don’t you want to go have some, you know, What do you mean you don’t know what you’re going to do?
00:23:37:11 – 00:23:43:05
Alison Keene
but when I started asking this question was of the woman.
00:23:43:07 – 00:23:57:23
Alison Keene
She had ideas and hopes. And when he stopped working, maybe we would do this. Or maybe we would have the opportunity to go here or spend this time or do. And but that conversation hadn’t taken place yet.
00:23:58:00 – 00:23:58:24
Jason Vincent
Interesting.
00:23:58:24 – 00:24:15:14
Alison Keene
you know, they’re very difficult conversations. But I think now the Gen Xers and millennials, they’re starting to have those conversations because what we were talking about earlier, the family dynamics are looking a little different now.
00:24:15:16 – 00:24:26:18
Jason Vincent
Yeah. And I you you said something interesting or important there. You said it’s the things are starting to change. My view would be with the millennials. They have changed.
00:24:26:18 – 00:24:27:15
Alison Keene
Yes.
00:24:27:17 – 00:24:52:15
Jason Vincent
Like if I look at the millennials and how they approach a family unit and or their finances, my view would be is, is the work that we’ve done continue to do is it has changed. And that’s why our advice is always, you know, you put your hat on to protect that individual first, obviously, and do what you can for that individual until they are a household, of course, and then it’s a household hat that you put on.
00:24:52:17 – 00:25:07:18
Jason Vincent
But I think we’ve circled around the same key pieces where you where you found the best place to start is where we find the best place to start is bring everything together, understand what they look like, make sure
00:25:07:18 – 00:25:12:02
Jason Vincent
both have an important seat at the table and then put the plan together.
00:25:12:04 – 00:25:29:18
Jason Vincent
And that plan will be different depending on which advisory you use. But essentially you’re trying to say, what do you look like? And then you’re trying to have these different facets, investments, estate, tax, all these different facets to make sure that individuals understand what they’re
00:25:29:18 – 00:25:34:00
Jason Vincent
trajectory is in their plan. I think I think you and I have circled around after all these years.
00:25:34:03 – 00:25:39:00
Jason Vincent
It’s not like it’s a surprise to you and I, but certainly is when you sit down with some new clients.
00:25:39:02 – 00:25:51:02
Alison Keene
Well, I think it’s because we all get so busy working and working in our career and focused on goal setting. And will I get that emotional I get that raise. Will I get that bonus?
00:25:51:04 – 00:25:51:21
Jason Vincent
Yeah.
00:25:51:21 – 00:26:05:10
Jason Vincent
from a perspective of, you know, sort of our focus here today for for women is actually have a plan to take control of your finances. And for the most part, I think you do need help. You know, people that don’t think they need help.
00:26:05:10 – 00:26:30:23
Jason Vincent
I actually disagree with that because, you know, I always say 90% is execution. 10% is actually the thought process upfront. So having the plan actually doesn’t mean you’re successful. And I’ve seen this over and over and over again. Clients will come to us or prospects will come to us. And now this 150 page plan, I got this plan, what should I do with it?
00:26:30:23 – 00:26:56:07
Jason Vincent
And I’ve said, Well, the mere fact that you’re asking me what you should do with it means it’s a it’s a disaster. All right. So 90% is execution. You want to actually have somebody that put something together for you. But the most important part is you actually execute it. Right. And then and then kind of hold your feet to the fire to make sure that you actually do what you say you’re going to.
00:26:56:10 – 00:27:07:10
Jason Vincent
And we all know you’re going to slip up once in a while. But the key is to be able to put your thoughts down, get organized and then execute. And the execution is the hardest part, in my opinion.
00:27:07:10 – 00:27:11:08
Alison Keene
I was going to say probably lost me on page five.
00:27:11:10 – 00:27:12:14
Jason Vincent
That’s exactly right.
00:27:12:14 – 00:27:29:02
Alison Keene
And it’s also very much about trust that you must trust like your trust, your physician, you trust your accountant, you trust, if you need legal advice, you trust your lawyer. Well, in matters of money, money matters of the heart with money.
00:27:29:04 – 00:27:29:12
Jason Vincent
Yes.
00:27:29:16 – 00:27:56:17
Alison Keene
Need to trust your advisor. And I, you know, in my role, I went to weddings, funerals, because you became part of the family. You knew the family very well from that perspective and the trust there. In fact, even now retired. And I still maintain friendships and relationships with clients after all these years. Some of them I’ve known for 40 years.
00:27:56:20 – 00:27:57:20
Jason Vincent
Right.
00:27:57:22 – 00:28:39:07
Alison Keene
It’s wonderful. It is wonderful. But there is that level of trust and respect for each other. And that’s important in my I think in some of the younger women that I’ve been speaking to recently, in the last couple of years, they haven’t been able to find the relationship from a trusted advisor because I think they go into it thinking, the expectations on me or this and I’m going to know this and I should have this and I should have this much more wealth accumulated and maybe they have a little too much debt.
00:28:39:09 – 00:29:00:04
Alison Keene
And, you know, they they have a bit of guilt going into this and they’re not really sure how to approach it. And I mean, we all make mistakes with money, you know, even in my, you know, growing and growing up in the business effectively as a young 20 something year old, you would have thought, yeah, you know, didn’t make any mistakes.
00:29:00:04 – 00:29:21:17
Alison Keene
But you do. That’s life. You make mistakes and you have to learn from the past. And as one of my old farming clients is now deceased. Blossom But well, I used to say. Ali, education’s always expensive and it’s true, but you take that away, right? You learn from that mistake.
00:29:21:21 – 00:29:23:01
Jason Vincent
Right.
00:29:23:03 – 00:29:51:07
Alison Keene
Judgment, judgment, error, judgment. And, you know, you take away and you don’t live in the past and you learn from the mistakes. And, you know, it’s I find that young women now, they maybe are living with perhaps a little too much debt, you know, societal consumption expectations. I mean, social media feeds full of it all the time.
00:29:51:07 – 00:30:18:17
Alison Keene
you know, societally, with corporations have encouraged that. “You, too, can have a new car every two years if you can make the payment” or a fancy new wake boat or a fancy new holiday trailer or, you know, this new home. But in previous generations and the ones like I grew up with my parents, you didn’t purchase anything unless you had cash for it.
00:30:18:20 – 00:30:19:24
Jason Vincent
Yeah, yeah,
00:30:19:24 – 00:30:34:00
Jason Vincent
So do you think now in a household that both need work in many cases just because of the societal costs?
00:30:34:02 – 00:30:59:00
Alison Keene
Yes, I do. I think there’s definitely a financial need for partnership, too. I mean, when you think about the cost of raising children and you need a bigger home, you need a bigger vehicle, and children have extracurricular activities being whatever it be, it seems like it’s very expensive these days. I mean.
00:30:59:02 – 00:30:59:17
Jason Vincent
Yeah.
00:30:59:19 – 00:31:14:02
Alison Keene
When I was playing on the basketball team in high school, we didn’t have too many long weekend away games traveling all over the province. But now it seems that that’s what’s happening. And with the young hockey teams, they’re away. So this all costs a lot of money.
00:31:14:08 – 00:31:15:03
Jason Vincent
Yes.
00:31:15:05 – 00:31:41:00
Alison Keene
And so I find that the the priorities for women are okay. Yes. I have some ideas about what life looks like in ten or 20, 30 years. You know, But in this moment, I’m trying to advance my career and raise my family and provide for my family and in some cases look after their elderly members of their family.
00:31:41:00 – 00:31:42:09
Jason Vincent
Right, right, right.
00:31:42:09 – 00:31:43:23
Jason Vincent
The sandwich generation.
00:31:43:24 – 00:31:52:24
Alison Keene
Yes. And that’s they’re not necessarily providing financially for their elder family members. They’re certainly involved in the care of.
00:31:53:01 – 00:31:54:24
Jason Vincent
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:55:05 – 00:32:07:15
Alison Keene
Taking them to appointments or providing meals for them or spending time with them or, you know, overseeing, you know, overseeing their assets and finances and bill paying.
00:32:07:17 – 00:32:20:06
Jason Vincent
So so if we just focus maybe on the younger women for now, what would be your if you look at the complexities the challenges that they have
00:32:20:06 – 00:32:38:01
Alison Keene
we’re talking about is it’s financial freedom? that’s not necessarily synonymous with retirement. I mean, when I was a young woman at that age, you know, financial freedom and okay, well, I’m getting that when I’m retired because it’s going to take me 30 years.
00:32:38:03 – 00:33:05:22
Alison Keene
But financial freedom isn’t necessarily synonymous with retirement. It is actually maybe allowing you to pursue that freelance opportunity, that side business that you wanted to open up or maybe work part time or maybe return to school. And I guess there we go again, it’s back to setting those financial goals.
00:33:05:24 – 00:33:06:15
Jason Vincent
Yes.
00:33:06:17 – 00:33:30:00
Alison Keene
And developing a budget and what that looks like and the cash flow management. And of course, with some of those desires and goals, there’s going to be some compromises that have to be made. What are you willing to compromise? And and what does that debt repayment look like?
00:33:30:02 – 00:33:30:23
Jason Vincent
Right. Right.
00:33:31:03 – 00:33:35:12
Alison Keene
Taking on, you know, you have a desire. I’d love to have a bigger home.
00:33:35:14 – 00:33:36:08
Jason Vincent
Yes.
00:33:36:10 – 00:33:48:17
Alison Keene
Or if you have a family or I’d really love that condo downtown for myself, but it’s only going to cost me this much more. Is it is it worth it?
00:33:48:19 – 00:34:29:15
Jason Vincent
Yeah, I think I think I would just add to that the for the younger individuals, I always say pretend that tomorrow you’re single again. Right. And so whether it’s a male or a female, because it seems to me is that your default or your base load is as you need to be in a position to be self-sufficient and be able to achieve financial independence when you’re together as a unit is should be shouldn’t be linear, it should be exponential as long as that unit is together.
00:34:29:17 – 00:34:51:14
Jason Vincent
But pretend tomorrow it’s not. And if you do that, you’re always going to be in a position that you can achieve your financial independence. And then events, whether you’re female or male, but you just focus on the females. For now, if you do that, you’re going to have a seat at the table and you be a part of those decision making pieces, which I think is key.
00:34:51:16 – 00:35:01:13
Alison Keene
Well, in going back to our earlier comments, providing that you have a partner that shares the same values and the same goals.
00:35:01:13 – 00:35:27:04
Alison Keene
and we’re finding now we’re seeing now that now relationships aren’t a lifetime like back in the day when our grandparents and great grandparents. They got married when they’re basically teenagers. YOUNG Yep. 20 or 20 something. And they you know, they stayed with that partner all their lives and today that’s not the case.
00:35:27:09 – 00:35:36:08
Jason Vincent
No. And that’s my point is culturally we’ve changed. So make sure that you understand that.
00:35:36:10 – 00:35:36:24
Alison Keene
And protect yourself.
00:35:36:24 – 00:35:44:10
Alison Keene
Yes. Especially now, because back in, you know, bygone eras, there was there was one income.
00:35:45:12 – 00:36:20:09
Alison Keene
And now there are dual income earners. And the woman female can often be the higher income earner with a faster career track. And I seen it to where in former clients where the couple decided, okay, your career is headed, where it’s like on a trajectory that we tend to ignore. But so the male spouse wants was a stay at home dad.
00:36:20:11 – 00:36:38:03
Alison Keene
And so that was very interesting to work with that dynamic financially and but a couple two couples come to mind and they were they were really handling it very well. I thought it was it was really wonderful to see, actually.
00:36:38:05 – 00:36:38:16
Jason Vincent
Absolutely.
00:36:38:16 – 00:36:49:12
Alison Keene
And I have seen it where the family of the part of the past came after the spouse for money.
00:36:49:14 – 00:36:50:04
Jason Vincent
Right.
00:36:50:06 – 00:37:25:15
Alison Keene
Because. Well, it is mine and I’m the income earner and I’m looking after the children. Well, he had brothers and sisters and they need help. And he owned half of this home. It’s true. But it’s not paid off. And I’m paying the mortgage. So I saw a very unusual development and one in one case with that. So it’s not just for relationship breakdown, but it’s also from an estate standpoint as well.
00:37:25:17 – 00:37:39:13
Jason Vincent
I agree. And when you say life can, I would say life does prevent unsuspecting. And for all of us. Right. I mean, it’s just it’s not a matter of if, it’s just a matter of when.
00:37:39:15 – 00:38:05:02
Alison Keene
Absolutely. I mean, there I mean, just to share a personal story with you, one of the it was a life lesson for me. I was 13 years old and was diagnosed with cancer. And all of a sudden and I had just changed financial firms. I actually I’d only been there a year. And so then you’d think I might have thought about this being in the business.
00:38:05:04 – 00:38:23:08
Alison Keene
But, you know, you, you just the details that you overlook sometimes. Well, I had only been with the firm a year, the new firm. So it meant that if I needed to go on short term disability, it was only going to be based on my last 12 months trailing income.
00:38:23:10 – 00:38:23:19
Jason Vincent
Right.
00:38:23:21 – 00:38:25:15
Alison Keene
Well I was transitioning my practice.
00:38:25:20 – 00:38:26:02
Jason Vincent
Right.
00:38:26:07 – 00:38:50:14
Alison Keene
To a new firm. So I wasn’t making what I was making the previous few years because I was in transition. It’s like transitioning your business and starting a new world. You know, there’s a lot of costs in startup and and you’re not necessarily on your feet in year one. Well, all of a sudden now I’m at this new firm and I don’t have any real short term disability to speak of.
00:38:50:16 – 00:39:05:01
Alison Keene
And I’m running an investment management practice. It’s like, okay, note to self in your planning, everybody is going to have an independent source of short term and long term disability from here on forward.
00:39:05:01 – 00:39:06:02
Jason Vincent
Right.
00:39:06:05 – 00:39:19:01
Alison Keene
Because it gives you that flexibility. If you do want to leave a firm that you’ve been with for ten, 15, 20 years and something like a cancer diagnosis comes out of left field, don’t you? And it’s like, holy smokes.
00:39:19:01 – 00:39:19:10
Jason Vincent
Right.
00:39:19:11 – 00:39:23:18
Alison Keene
Though needless to say, I didn’t spend much time on short term disability.
00:39:23:20 – 00:39:24:04
Jason Vincent
Right. Right.
00:39:24:07 – 00:39:26:22
Alison Keene
Which also presented some interesting complications.
00:39:26:22 – 00:39:28:11
Jason Vincent
Point taken. Some people need to rate.
00:39:28:11 – 00:39:44:24
Alison Keene
Here I am today. So it all worked out but it’s, it’s you know I was one of the I thought people would say to me you you’ve been diagnosed with cancer. You’re one of the fittest people. I know. I know. It just goes to show you, you know, it.
00:39:44:24 – 00:39:45:13
Jason Vincent
Doesn’t always work that way
00:39:45:13 – 00:39:47:05
Alison Keene
You can’t pick and choose.
00:39:47:07 – 00:39:55:14
Jason Vincent
Exactly. Yeah. No, it’s crazy. The that’s the my point is not if it’s when. And we’ll knock on wood and throw some salt over. Well, that’s.
00:39:55:14 – 00:39:55:23
Alison Keene
Right.
00:39:56:04 – 00:40:01:02
Jason Vincent
So I probably kept you a long enough. I think We
00:40:01:02 – 00:40:05:04
Jason Vincent
appreciate your time, Ali, and we’ll talk to you shortly here and
00:40:05:11 – 00:40:06:12
Alison Keene
Lovely to chat.
00:40:06:14 – 00:40:07:07
Jason Vincent
Very good.
00:40:07:09 – 00:40:09:16
Alison Keene
Thank you. Bye for now.
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